Tapu 2023: Rongoā revival and reproductive health

Speaker

Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu

Pepehā

Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu: Tēnā koe. I'll just have a good look around.

[LAUGHTER]

Ko Tararua pai maunga e rere ana
Ko Ōtaki te awa
Ko Raukawa te moana
Ko Raukawa te marae
Ko Ngāti Raukawa ki te tonga te iwi
Ko Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu ahau

Introduction

So I just want to take a minute, maybe a couple of seconds, to recognise my first name, it's my mother's name, Hemaima. I brought my mom's photo with me, I want to tell you the story, which is her pūrākau among the other nannies and aunties, her cousins, who I was fortunate to have experience of and to be part of my life.

But I'm going to tell you about her now, just on that small little bit there, but first, I've got to go back into te taiao because we heard from Mark [Kopua], which was brilliant, listening to him, to remind us that, actually, we are always living in the realm of ātua, tapu and noa.

Papatūānuku is always with us, Ranginui is there, there is te ao, te pō and we're in between it, we're in the middle, and there are spaces and places that we forget to experience because we're living in a modern world, we have to work, we've got to pay bills, we have children, we have whānau, and we have relationships.

And then those particular aspects of ourselves, we forget to come back to who we are in this space, to acknowledge that we are also descendants from these ātua thattapu place that actually resides in us and in our te taiao, in the whenua.

How te taiao has changed in Ōtaki

So I was born in Ōtaki. And I've lived along this coast most of my life, and so I know Ōtaki and my relations further up the road and Tūkorehe and Ngāti Wehi Wehi. And what I've seen over the years-- because rongoā sits in our environment-- is how it has changed through industry, through farming, market gardening, through housing development. And so what I have seen in my lifetime-- and I was born in 1958, so I'll be 65 soon-- so what I've seen is, the way that our rongoā our medicine has been taken away, has been cut down, has been polluted, and how my mom and those nannies-- how they transferred all that energy of destruction and adapted to other rongoā that was in place of it.

So if we think about our ngāhere being cut down, we think about our fields that are there for farming. And what has come in, of course, is the red clover and various weeds from other-- from the Northern Hemisphere. And so one of the things I was smart about-- and this is in the '60s-- is to adapt and use the weeds and that rongoā with our own, with the awareness and knowing what's in our environment is the kaitiaki that is all around us, various kaitiaki.

Kaitiaki mukukai

So a key one where I live is Mukukai. Mukukai is a kaitiaki in our stories, that comes from the maunga Taranaki and he got spat out, and he then swam along the coastline, visiting the various communities along the way. So other iwi have different kōrero for Mukukai. And then his area is coming to Wellington over to Castlepoint, our Kahungunu whānau over there. What Mukukai does when he comes is that, he's a benevolent being, and he brings fish, but he also visits the streams that lead into the township.

And so in Ōtaki, there are many, many underwater streams and springs, and so he comes, spring -comes about September, October, and that's when the rongoā, in particular, is very potent, and that's when the mauri or the wairua is felt in the special places that we still have along this coast. So these were some of the stories I was told and some of the experiences that I had by being in these places, by recognising the timing. So we have our seasons, but our seasons may shift, and he may shift with the seasons, he may come later or he may come earlier, he may visit-- and I say he because he is a he-- he may visit numerous times, depending on what the people need.

He isn't often talked about anywhere-- but I think in Ōtaki and me, here-- because he's a kaitiaki taniwhā that is particular with Ngāti Raukawa ki te tonga and those of us who have grown up with the old people around us telling us these stories.

Life in the olden days

So the interesting thing about those nannies, mum-- mum had 14 children, and I'm number 11. And of the-- she had six girls, but the interesting thing is that they lived their lives between this tapu and noa because you sort the kids out, you feed them, you send them off to school, and then you go do other mahi. And then you go into your own space, which is a tapu space, then you might have to visit the spring with the other nannies. Then you come back, 3:00 o’clock, the kids are coming home, you're back in noa, you're back in preparing for dinner, maybe you've got to send the kids down the shop if you've forgotten things.

So there was always this balance, this balance of living in this space where all the ātua are around us and recognising that and stepping into that space and then stepping back. So I watched my mum and these nannies, aunties, do this mahi, so all my learning about rongoā comes from a woman's line, it doesn't come down a male line for me, it's from a woman's line. So I'll talk about her kuia and I forgot to bring her photo, her name was Rangiākutateao.

And when I was going back through them-- when I was talking about how they watched the whenua, how there was impact on their land and the medicine basket which sits in Ōtaki and Haruatae, that's our old rongoā place, and when, eventually, that got taken out, most of it, in 1972, they opened up a park and a swimming pool, and we went to the opening, it was very hard to see this because this is a primal ngāhere of kahikatea, totara, kohekohe – got kohekohe here -- to see that all go down. But one thing-- I remember it was 1972, Labour Party-- and I've forgotten the Māori minister from the far North, he was-- anyway, my mum said, oh, it's all right, the heart of our ngāhere is still here.

And so at Haruatae, past the soccer fields and another area is the old primal forest that's still left. And so this is a ngāhere that we don't harvest from but we take students and people in to feel the wairua and the mauri, it hasn't changed. And so we look after that ngāhere, and it is as a place to sit and to feel the pulse, and your own pulse and rhythm, with where you are.

There are many places like that in this whenua, along these coastlines, and it is haukāinga that hold-- I wouldn't say secret, but hold the pūrākau and keep it close to them to protect it. And every now and again, you are given the privilege and taken to a spring that you didn't know was there or to where a taniwhā lives that is demanding attention. And these particular experiences happen frequently as a rongoā practitioner, as someone-- and I say, practitioner, as a pou rongoā not a tohunga because the pūrākau, the mātauranga comes through this female line.

Wāhine and whare tangata, menstruation

So what does that mean for us as, let's say, wāhine and our whare tangata? What does that mean for us? So I can only talk about-- well, a couple of things I can talk about – as a young woman-- as a young woman at 13 and becoming a woman, becoming someone who's going to be having their whare tangata in use and will bleed once a month. So of the six girls, I had issues, I had problems, I was often unwell, bled heavily during those times. And so, fortunately, for me, my mum spotted straight away that I could be a candidate, in the future years, for-- what's that flash word?

Endometriosis.

Endometriosis. And mum couldn't say the word either, but she knew that it was a condition that could affect me, so her first line of rongoā defence was to keep me home from school every month for two to three days. And part of that was to stop me, to be still, to be in an environment, to be home with her-- it was the best-- to actually realise that this is-- like, I hated every month because of that, but I realised that I was being treated like a princess. I wasn't allowed to do any dishes, didn't have to make the bed, I didn't have to do any housework, it was a way of telling me, you're in a state of tapu, your precious, and you will eventually work with this energy that you have going on, which is a natural occurrence in our body, in my body.

And so in those times-- oh, gosh, I was lucky-- I went to those places where there were springs, where I could be shown, this is where my nanny used to get the water to do whakawātea for people, this is growing here because the taniwhā demands that tainui should grow along this barrier here, must never be taken away. So in those times of being in that kind of strange mamae, I was then being blessed with this ora by just being still, by listening and being in a space with some wāhine, with these nannies.

Being still — self-care

So from that experience, I've learned that, probably, none of us in here will give ourselves five minutes to sit and just-- more, maybe, maybe five minutes-- you might give yourself five minutes to be still, maybe close your eyes, just to listen, just to sit out in the park or even in your home, that's the first line of defence of rongoā, be still whakarongo, do nothing, try not to think, our minds get in the way of thinking.

And so what then happened was that, I became in tune with my whare tangata, and those particular issues had gone away, just faded away. She was forceful in bringing the school and say, no, she won't be here for the next year and the first month, blah, blah, blah, for two days, and that's how it is. So I had that experience, you may have other experiences that you need to pass on to your whānau, to your tamariki, to your cousins or nieces. One of the things that we don't talk enough about is our whare tangata and our experience, it's not actually looking at your navel, it's really having this deep relationship with yourself and knowing that this is my tapu self and this is part of my being of the of the ātua, very fortunate.

Healing process and wairua

Now, the thing that-- I was very lucky to be given this kokowai today, and this is a medicine that I have used or my mum used, and that was to mix it in oil, pound it, mix it in oil, and then just put on my pito, and just let me sleep with that on my pito. We have this notion that there needs to be some physical, interruptive action for healing rather than engaging with people to start their healing process. So as a pou rongoā, what I learnt is, how do we engage with people who need some healing? How do we assist them to facilitate their healing? Because it's not from us, as I stand here, this is not my job to heal you or heal anyone, but it is my job to help you facilitate that for yourself and to support this process.

One of the other things that we don't talk about as well is that-- with the revival of rongoā, with the sense of tapu or the sacred, the thing is that, we are then accessing the other realm, the other wairua realm, the dreams. I dreamed a lot and had visionary dreams at that time because I was given the space to do that and to be not afraid of our spiritual pathway or our wairua-- that is trying to ignite us to be who we truly are-- but to actually integrate that into our lives, and how do we then transform that into our community and whānau around us.

Because one of the things why, now, people are having wairua issues-- and I say issues orwairuatanga-- that's happening to them is that, people around them get really frightened, people around them want to go to a mental health institution or go to a mental health area in their lives when it's not a diagnosed issue, it's not a diagnosed issue, it's actually part of who we are, and it's about having that discernment of knowing what is right wairua, what is the stress, and what's in in your head, these things that we are always transforming or the pathways that we are walking around us.

So I say this because a number of wāhine have come, and they are having what was the kōrero, I'm having these mad dreams. And I said, and when is it are you having it? It's when I'm having my period or when it's full moon. I said, OK, so what can we do for you? What can we do for you? The first thing was, let's step back, let's see what's happening in your life, are you getting any rest? What are the hours you're working? Oh, I'm working long hours, I've got the, blah, blah.

Well, you need to cut that down. There are simple things that we can do before we actually even get to therongoā, before we get to the rākau, We want to put some focus on the hinengaro and the wairua before we go to the tinana because those are areas that are ignored and forgotten in healing processes.

Kohekohe

So one of the key rongoā-- and because I was healed in a way that my mum healed me, I didn't need this. But the key rongoā is here on the table, which is Kohekohe. And I have a Kohekohe that-- a tree that goes in my garden, it’s an oldie. The thing about Kohekohe it's wonderful to use for wāhine who are having either headaches, nightmares, hormonal issues, it doesn't matter what age, whether you're having that big flash word--

Endometriosis.

--whether you are having those problems. And one of the key things about having that problem is that, you do need this, you do need this, easy dosage. And I'm not going to talk dosage and how we would prepare it because I don't want people to go and do that because there's tikanga, there's kawa that we've got to follow, but this is what we use.

And one of the things about our rākau and our rongoā is that we are aware that particular rongoā, like this one here, Kohekohe in my garden, I know that it has a kaitiaki inside that rākau. I know that it is intelligent. I know that it is speaking in the way that is through feeling, that is through just showing, by being quite visible. And it's magic.

And so this rākau, I think, is about 400 years old when they looked at it. It is blooming early. But the flowers are hanging from it, from the branches. And you know, it doesn't start doing that until-- this is March. March coming up near-- until, actually, May. So it's jumped ahead because of the climate, because it's warming up.

And I wonder what that will do to it. Yeah? I wonder what-- if the potency of its medicine will change, because it's blooming too early, it's flowering too early, because it has a special-- rongoā when it flowers, you know? It usually flowers in the middle of winter, in June. Has a wonderful-- hits on a full moon, and it just glows up at night, because the full moon hits it, and it's just a white flower.

So I wonder what it's going to do. I have to wait. And I have some thoughts about it. Yeah. I have some thoughts about it. And we all, you know, what's happened recently, with the cyclone. We all know we need to be prepared. And that's one of the thoughts.

Matakite

Well, yeah. OK. So one of the things that happens when I give these talks-- I'm just going to just say it-- look. You know, I have it all sorted, what I'm going to do. And then that never happens.

[LAUGHTER]

And I get clear information. You know? And my whānaunga over here, Maru she calls it the drop down. And I thought, well, yeah. I wish they would drop down at other times.

But the kōrero that I've been asked to talk about, which people don't think is a rongoā , but again, it is. And it's because we think that rongoā is always just a rākau, because rongoā is the environment that we live in. Rongoā is us.

But my mum also wondered-- and her and her friends were also matakite. So that part of who we all are, we are matakite. And we have to be grounded with this awareness. Can't be flying off into la-la land. Got to be grounded.

And I was very fortunate to watch how grounded they are when they were in their matakite phase. So I bought the teapot and the teacup as an example. So I wish I had my-- the other kuia’s photo, but Mum had a very good friend-- Mrs. McGowan-- who was an Irish-Scottish woman, who was a tea leaf reader. Lived in Manukau, and she was known as a healer and a matakite.

So one of the things watching them-- you know, when you sit and you have a cup of tea after church, and you might have cream, scones, and jam? And you drink that, and then an energy shift-- the changes that have gone from this ordinary thing to reading the tea leaf. And then she tips-- you put the teacup on the saucer, and then you turn it three times.

So as a young person, living here, I was watching. I was fascinated. What's this kuia doing? She's turning. So I ask her, what are you doing? She says, well, when you turn the cup three times, you're turning it from the mundane, ordinary world into the other world of the sacredness.

And she says, now I'll turn it up. And I will look into the cup and read. But I'm not just reading the tea leaves. I am imbibing. I am feeling the hā, the breath of that person who has just drank the cup.

And then I realised that in one instant I went from ordinary to tapu. Just like that. By the action of this woman and the knowledge of what she had. And then I was kicked out, because I wasn't allowed to hear the reading. But I knew what was going on.

And it was so simple. And it's often those simple, practical things are missed-- you miss it, because we are in, you know-- through Hollywood movies, and just sensationalism on Facebook, or any other media, we are expecting something fantastic, or fantastical. But actually, tapu, sacred, is right next to us in ordinary daily life. OK? Hey, what's our time? Because I better get onto this.

[INAUDIBLE]

Nearly 1:00.

Nearly 1:00? Finish at 2:00. OK. We're going to move this way, because it takes a bit of time. And I'll just keep talking.

Introducing rongoā practitioners: MJ and Aroha Connor

So I have two rongoā practitioners here-- MJ and Aroha Connor. MJ come over here.

And what I've made-- so, you know, rongoā is sitting in that sacredness of what those rākau are to various people. It's just sitting in our gardens. It's sitting in the environment. And so I'll just pick them up here.

Demonstration of different rongoā and their uses and Foot soak recipe

So all these come from my garden. So I've got a big garden. It's about an acre. So this is tainui, OK? Tainui is lovely. Very strong rongoā. Good for mirimiri, chest, you know? Clearing our chest. Also, it clears the sinuses.

And when you least expect it, it clears your mind. Yeah. Because you know, if you're congested here, you're congested elsewhere. It's usually in your head. So that's what that does.

And then in the garden, I've got newit. I've got lavender. Yep. And a weed that likes a lot of water. Actually grows near —ongaonga, the native stinging nettle. And that's balm of Gilead. It's very, very aromatic.

And of course, have you seen it everywhere along this coast? There's fennel. Āe. It's everywhere, so it's in my garden, too. And I cut it back, but I also use it, because it's a great medicine.

And so just like my mother and the nannies, they adapted. They use it. They use rongoā, native, and also other herbs and weeds that are around us.

So one of the good treatments for those of us who are stressed, for those of us who are having-- can't slow down because there's too much happening in our world, and for anyone who has any puku problems-- and puku meaning, like, well, if you have emotional problems, you know, where do you feel it first? It's in the gut. You know?

Where do you feel fear, for most people? It's here. And so a foot bath or a hot bath-- if you haven't got a bath, a foot bath is great. So last night, or the other day, with my daughter, Topeora we made up a Epsom salt bath soak, or foot bath soak. And we used these rongoā here.

Now, you notice I've only used the one native one? The one kūmarahou, or tainui. Because it's potent. It's really strong. OK? And you don't need a lot.

So I've used it with these other non-natives. And then they've been dried. And then they-- well, you know, people get one of those coffee blender things? Yeah. Well, I've got three for herbs and rongoā. And then I blend it up.

And together-- we mix it together, me and my daughter. We do our karakia because we want to put good energy, good healing thoughts into this, this bowl of salt. And we want-- we also put on the good music, because we want that vibe. You know? We do a little dance in the kitchen, come back. You know?

So it is all about the mauri. Yeah. It's all about not being serious. You know, part of our healing is to have your attention off the issue, and to be in the world of ora, not always stuck in mate.

I say that because recently, I've lost two brothers. And it's been a struggle to bring ourselves back into ora. And so we I'm working on it. And so we did this last night. This brings us a lot of joy. The other thing that we use, because we can-- that's the why. Because I said, well, why would we put those in? Because we can. OK. We'll do that, then. That was my daughter's answer.

So we've got thyme. No. I know that thyme's a great healer, antifungal, many, many things. Litsea. Have people heard of litsea? It's a type of pine that's from the northern hemisphere . It's great. It works like cedar, is another one. Yeah.

Tangerine. Tangerine or orange in aromatherapy is uplifting. Yeah? And it's a lightness, and that's what we bring. So we've got, we've got very woody things in this mix here. But then we also want to bring some lightness in, and this is what the essential oils are about.

Now, one of the things-- I think of my mom and those nannies had essential oils. They'd be using them every day. But they didn't in the '60s in Ōtaki. You know? Never heard of such a thing. And they didn't.

So with that soak I encourage people-- get that bowl where you are gonna put your feet in. Get the salts. Put it in. Have the warm water there. Prepare yourself. Make your wahi tapu in your space. Have your music ready.

Offer yourself this gift. Don't do it for anyone else. Do it for yourself. And then understand that the rongoā that's there, the medicine that's there, is calming, is revitalising you. It's going to pull out toxins, you know? It's going to act as, also, withdrawal of toxins, which is what the Epsom salt is about.

And also, the power of aromatherapy. And think about the smells that you like. What are the memories that takes you back? You know, is it lavender? Is it rosemary? Is it lemon? What are those memories?

For me, lavender always reminds me of the nannies. You know? And I like that smell. And gift yourself that time. You know? And so part of the things that we do-- like, you can buy these things in stores. You've seen them, and they're also online.

But it is a gift to yourself when you start making it for yourself, because these are things you can gather. And you're not going to harm yourself, you know? There's about 2.2 kilos-- yeah-- 2.7 of Epsom salts in there, to make at least a bag, 40 bags. You know?

And because we are using, spreading that rongoā out in that base, none of it is going to irritate your skin. Yeah? Because you've got to think about how sensitive you are. But because we've got to balance, and we measure things-- you can measure things to get the balance. But actually, you've got to trust, as an experience, pourongoā. I trust how I'm balancing without measuring. Yeah? But you might find other ways how to do that.

The other thing that I've got here-- and see, this salt thing? I used to have these when I was a kid, with my mum, feet in there. Never had the nice smells, though. But the other thing that was also a real treat was afterwards, when you dry your feet, you need to anoint your feet. OK?

People go, oh, you just put the oil on and mirimiri. No, no, no, no. It's an anointment. You anoint yourself. You bless yourself. You end this wahi tapu with this last phase, which is the anointment-- the oil.

So the oil that I have here-- and these all come from my garden-- and I forgot to bring the plant to show you-- is the geranium plant that I infused in olive oil. You can infuse it, actually, any oil. But I've infused it in olive oil.

And that is after you dry your feet. And then there's a quality of practice that you may give yourself that we all give ourselves, give each other, this practice. Yeah? That it's a reminder that these medicines that are all around us are there for us to utilise. And then once we in balance because of the rongoā we have used, we then become the rongoā for someone else. OK? Because we're in a good space.

You know, oh, look, my eyes are so bright. You know? I've had a detox foot bath. So I encourage people to do this, to make their own. You can get the bath salts. You can buy it.

I have tried that. It's got no mauri. You know, when you make things, your life force is in there. That's the rongoā. So I go there. I go, oh, there's no mauri.

You probably will find, if you do buy things, it's at markets, because you know that person's made it. Yeah? You like the look of that person. You know, I can buy that. Yeah. There's mauri there. There's wairua there. Yeah. I can get some healing for that.

Rongoā shouldn’t be a commodity

Now, one of the things that I'm not good at-- I can make things and do it. But, oh, look. I can't be bothered putting them in the thingy.

[LAUGHTER]

I've got to I've got to pass that job on.

[LAUGHTER]

You know? And they know I'm hopeless at that [LAUGHTER]. Now, the thing is I haven't got labels for this. But I think I've given you the recipe for what I've just made, and I think this is recorded, so it's there. And it can be, then, just put up on the network if they need it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because being a pourongoā, someone who works with them, whānau, hapū, iwi is that we're not in a mainstream on purpose. Those who do-- it's a challenge, OK? If we've been raised and have been taught in our hometowns, amongst our own people, this is not a Western model where we can regulate and commodify and become of a system that actually does not include te taiao, does not include our mātauranga, our whakapapa.

And so, you know, I just make a small mention about the therapeutics bill that's going out there that all of us have made submissions. Some of us have been talking about it on TV. And you know, the herbalists that are our allies who it's going to affect-- we're all involved in protecting this taonga, because that's what we are protecting. It's a taonga.

Because actually, human beings have forgotten that they're taonga[. And so we're not separated from our environment. We have to rethink how we do things. We have to return as best we can the whenua, the awa, the very air we breathe, to its full capacity of its atuatanga, really. And so we're in challenging times.

And you know, I think about these nannies who wasn't sure what was going to come, but said to us, you're going to be-- you have to stay strong. Stay strong. Keep it simple, keep it pure, and you'll get looked after. Yeah?

And so those of us-- and there's many across the motu -- who have had these teachings in the way that I have, but in their rohe. We do network. We do kōrero to each other. We do try to support each other.

So what we have as a strength is our knowing, is our mātauranga, is our whānaungatanga. We know how to manaaki each other, and what we're up against. And let's be real. It's money. It's just money.

It's got policy written around it. It's got laws written around it. But it's about money. Yeah. And we got to be clear that's what it is, you know? And so we just have to stand and be the people we are.

So one of the things that when this reading comes through, and we're thinking, oh, should we protest? I says, no, no, no. We're supposed to be-- we're rongoā people. We don't go wave banners.

But we could all go and have a cup of tea by Parliament on the lawn. We can all take our rongoā teacups and our drinks, and then we can go offer, you know, wairākau to whānau. So our thought was, well, if we can, we'll all turn up and have a tea party.

And that's the blessing of being rongoā, because we can be in our rongoā selves, or we can be in our activism self. Or we could just be centre and actually use rongoā, because it is an action and activity. It is about saving, actually, humanity.

Now, have we done everything?

[INAUDIBLE]

No, no. You got to do it now. [? You. ?] You got to do this now. Yeah. Oh, I'm bossy, too.

[LAUGHTER]

Sorry. I wasn't clear. Yeah. We're going to bag all these. [INAUDIBLE] So I was hoping-- like, I'm up here, because you all out there-- I was hoping you might have some questions. Because I like questions. Because I might just turn on someone.

[LAUGHTER]

And I'm looking at her now.

[LAUGHTER]

Questions and answers

[INAUDIBLE]

Oh, great.

Tēnā koe.

Kia ora

[INAUDIBLE]

What's one way-- what's a way that you use to stop thinking?

Audience member: What's one way-- what's a way that you use to stop thinking?

Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu: OK. Well, one thing is I do have a really good playlist. A really good playlist. I put it on. And it's very calming music. And I've found that it's taken me a couple of years to get this playlist, because you've got to find what helps you empty out this.

And I put that on, and I'm gone for, I don't know, half an hour. Because it stops me thinking. But I've already set up my space. Got my foot bath ready, got my music going, and then I just sit back. Yeah.

So you know, you may have another way. You may go for a walk along the beach. That's another one. But if you're in an apartment, you're in a city, can't go, can't get there, that's one way. Thanks for the question. Kia Ora.Anyone else, before I turn to Maru.

[INAUDIBLE]

Oh, good.

[INAUDIBLE]

Oh. [INAUDIBLE] Ka pai.

What native plants would you suggest having an your own mara, in your own garden?

Audience member: Ngā mihi whaea. What Native plants would you suggest having an your own mara, in your own garden?

Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu: What ones would I suggest?

Yes.

OK. The ones that I suggest here along this coast is karamū because it grows everywhere, and it's a wonderful rongoā, and it's an important one that we use. And we use it to clear out our systems, you know? To flush the system. It's great for diabetes and cholesterol, lowering cholesterol.

The other one-- kawakawa goes anywhere and everywhere. You know, it's one that I don't talk about often, because it's just everywhere. But it's fantastic. And there are a lot of research on it. Have you seen a lot of the research that's online?

Wakatū is in partnership with some scientists who are doing research on kawakawa. Kohekohe is one that you find along here in Wellington, along this coast. What's another one that goes easily? Oh, matepō, red matepō.

These are the go-tos. Yeah. And you know matepō is a mild painkiller and also thins the blood. So it lowers the blood pressure. Yeah? OK. Oh, I think there's a question at the back there. I'm just saying. I'm [INAUDIBLE] I'm just trying to-- come on, people. Now's your chance. Kia ora.

What parallels could be drawn to any other cultures?

Audience member: What parallels could be drawn to any other cultures?

[INAUDIBLE]

OK.

[INAUDIBLE]

Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu: Yes. Thank you.

Yeah. Good question. Yes, I have. So I lived in Australia for a number of years, and I did have a connection with the Arrernte people from Alice Springs. Same kind of tikanga and kawa. They always karakia before they do anything, and always begin and end. The rongoā especially out in the desert was about their kokowai. OK?

It was about this, and it was about how the air flows across the desert. It was amazing. But also, in America, where I met a woman from Appalachian Mountains, a kuia who grew the various herbs around her property, and she had a veranda, and also under the veranda. And this was all about protection. This was all about keeping bad energy out, making sure good energy comes in.

She was a well-known rongoā practitioner in this town, and in particular, how she would heal people from cancer. But all the rongoā practitioners that I have met overseas and in their cultures, we have the same thing. We know that it is the environment we're living in that is important, because that's where the rongoā lives and sits.

We know that each rongoā, each plant-- she had pūrākau about Lavender. She had pūrākau about mugwort. Does anyone know mugwort? Yeah. She had pūrākau about mugwort from where she comes from, which was hilarious, actually.

And she knew what we would call kaitiaki [of the particular plants. None of it has been lost for these herbs that come from overseas. It's just been turned into folklore. Yeah? And not actually in the same way that we know it's still present. The practitioner of her calibre knew it was always present.

And you know, it's only-- it was in 1980, I met that woman. So that's when I found around the world, we all have the same whakaaro. Yeah. And we all know that it's us who're going to make the difference.

I'm just going to say. People talk about climate change, eh? Look, it's us. We got to change. We all know that. Climate just is a normal thing. It's changing all the time. It goes for cycles. Yes. I think we have a question at the back, here.

Rongoā for tea?

Audience member: Tēnā koe. Ngā mihi ki a koe ki te kōrero.You were talking about kawakawa, and you also were talking about tea. I know that kawakawa tea is very popular and useful. I was wondering if there were any other herbs, any other rongoā, you would suggest that would work for tea?

Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu: OK. So I'll talk about this one here, that's-- and she was a tohunga rongoā practitioner, te āwhina. And she loved making tea from tainui or karamū for-- this is the only one we would give to a pregnant woman. Yeah? And that was to nurture the baby in the womb, to strengthen the body, and because a lot of women have low blood pressure, and lift the blood pressure to a balanced level.

So like, I can't drink this, eh? This one would raise my blood pressure. I can't drink this. But for pregnant women and those ones with low blood pressure, this is-- the tea that she would make was from this. We do make tea from all our rongoā, and we may make a balanced blend. And again, it's about, what are we trying to do? If a person has a condition, what is it that we need to blend and mix in that tea?

Yeah. Because some people over-blend. And what you get is nothing. You get nothing. Just a strange-coloured kind of drink. OK. Yep. Go.

Can you speak about the reciprocity in your practice?

Audience member: So today, there seems to always be this emphasis on gather or hauhake or take, take, take. Can you speak about the reciprocity in your practice?

Hemaima Carkeek Wiremu: Yeah. Yeah. There are areas where we would never take. There is reciprocity. Look. Atua, the actual kaupapa of rongoā, you will receive what you get. You will receive what you give out. So if you play up-- let's put it that way-- if you play up, do some dumb things, which I have heard people do, as in go into a place-- This is one key thing. I've never going to rongoā and hauhake outside of my rohe, eh?

I'll never do that. I don't whakapapa to certain areas. I don't know the pūrākau, so I'm never going to take from there. Even if I think, oh, that's so beautiful. Well, I'll just look at it. It's beautiful.

But I don't come from there. I don't know those people from there. Maybe I do. Maybe I don't. So there's this thing-- you only hauhake from where you are allowed to, where you have been taught. Yeah? That's one thing.

Reciprocity-- when I've seen this go down and someone do that, well, you know, you pay. You pay through strange bad luck. You pay through that accident. How many accidents did you have in two weeks, three? Why do you think that is?

Especially people who have had some training, and then they go and do the opposite. What do we get back from rongoā by doing the right thing? One, I think you become well, or you maintain a wellness. Two-- other -- and people use that name, manifestation, I don’t think it’s thatit's just that the universe, or the mauri , or the atua repays you-- repays you in kindness, repays you in your mokopuna is well, your whānau is well.

And you have enough money to live well, to live comfortably. I've never seen a wealthy, rich rongoā in monetary terms. But I have seen a wealthy, rich rongoā person in every other way. Yeah.

How can you do rongoā right/ tika?

So when I was teaching at the wānanga, Te Wānanga o Aotearoa, key things we start off with is tikanga and kawa, which brings in where you can hauhake, where you can't, why you can't, and why you can, and encouraging people to plant their own rongoā, to plant the herbs around them, to join a group and look after a particular area if that's what you want to do. If you don't come from a particular area but you live here, well, go join some group that's out there so that you can get into the business of being part of this environment and caring for.

So, you know-- and it’s a wānanga I will mention this. One of the things about where we are now today in this environment is that our rongoā is at deficit, hey? We're losing a lot. So part of the rongoā like I said before, is yourself. And how are you going to revive rongoā in your small space? Because you don't need to get big with this. Start small.

And then, how are you going to think? And it is about-- use your intelligence to move this forward. Yeah. And when I say move this forward, who do you network with? Who do you make those whānaungatanga connections with on this kaupapa of protection, manaaki and care. Because that's how you give back to what they've given us.

So here's one thing, which I'll mention about them going with-- he's a tohunga, Rehua Kereama, in West Auckland. About 16 years ago. So part of the rongoā for when he was taking groups in is we just walk slowly through the ngāhere out west and then to sit in the space. And because there's about, oh I don't know, 20 of us? And then actually fall asleep in the space, because the rongoā is simply around us.

So you don't need to often take and make. We just need to go to those places that have that particular-- oh, though, I think the Japanese call it-- is it bathing? Forest bathing? I think they have a word for it. You just need to go sit in te taiao. You just need to be.

And then you may figure out, what do I need to do for this place here, for this whenua here, for this awa? Because that actually might be your rongoā that you become, kaitiaki. Yeah. Because a rongoā is always a kaitiaki.

I'm always-- I think I'm amused-- amused by these ones that-- well, you can spot them, and they're always advertising and selling, you know? Always advertising and selling. And I wonder what their rongoā actually is. That's a red flag for me, advertising and selling their goods.

It's a red flag because they're putting this vastness, and this greatness of what rongoā is into a small container. And then they're selling it profusely online. And maybe I'm being very judgmental about that. Well, I am.

[LAUGHTER]

And I am because I come from these old girls. This is how they taught me. And I think that's a kawa that is very clear for me. Yeah. Any other questions? That was a good question, thanks Izaac.

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