Interview with Hana Olds

Embedded content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5hSKlWUSoo

"Language is culture, and culture is language. And I think that’s a really important part in the future, but I also think it’s about having exhibitions like these, it’s about having these really important documents on show, so people know about it."

Speaker

Hana Olds

Transcript

What does the Treaty of Waitangi mean to you?

Hana Olds: Well, for me personally, I’ve got a European background, but I’m seven generations New Zealander. But I identify myself as Pākehā, and also I’ve been brought up in fluent Māori, as well, and brought up in a Māori community. So I’ve really strong ties to Māori culture, et cetera. And for me personally, the Treaty of Waitangi is the basis on why I’m here, and why every New Zealander is here.

And I think the importance of that is that we need to value the Treaty of Waitangi, and we need to use it as a reference point to say, actually this is the reason why we are here, and this is the only reason why we are here. So whenever I do my pepeha, I always introduce myself as a person of the Treaty of Waitangi - on the grounds of the Treaty of Waitangi, that’s why I stand here.

Has the Treaty been honoured?

Hana Olds: Well, I think it’s pretty clear to state that — you know, it’s pretty obvious that the New Zealand government, historically, has used Māori to their own benefit, and has taken land from Māori - and a lot of land at that, which has also resulted in areas that were once thriving, that are our now poverty stricken.

I don’t think the Treaty has been upheld, because if you even look at the language, like only — I can’t remember the percentage of New Zealanders who speak it, but it’s around 100,000 New Zealanders, who speak Māori fluently, and that’s just not enough. And I think... the true treasures of Māori culture; so the language, their rights, their land, that hasn’t been upheld, and that hasn’t been respected or even acknowledged by the government.

When the Waitangi Tribunal Settlement process is completed, that will be the end of Māori grievance, right?

Hana Olds: I think that’s ridiculous, because I think the Waitangi Tribunal has had a major part in our history, because it actually is the New Zealand government realising that they have made mistakes, and trying to fix it. I don’t think in some cases they’ve necessarily done it right.

I don’t think money can settle everything, and I think that’s very — yeah, it can’t settle everything, and it can't take the place of land. And I think it’s ridiculous to think that the Waitangi Tribunal... I think it’s important to acknowledge the fact that this shouldn’t be the end, and that there is still a lot more work to be done, and I don’t think the Waitangi Tribunal is the end of anything.

What do Tangata Tiriti (non-Māori) have to do to be ‘good Treaty partners’?

Hana Olds: I think it’s about dispelling ignorance, and the fact of sort of owning our history. And I recently went on a history trip up to the Waikato, and at one point we were on the bus driving, and they were like, my teacher said, 'From now on, all this land was stolen from Māori.' And we drove for a very, very long time. And I think the fact that it’s about awareness, and it’s about saying, this is what has happened in the past, and that we can’t change the past, but we can change what we have now.

And I think we need to start learning the language, because I think that’s also one of the key barriers, because I think if know the language, if people are more familiarised with it — language is culture, and culture is language. And I think that’s a really important part in the future, but I also think it’s about having exhibitions like these, it’s about having these really important documents on show, so people know about it. [coughs].

Young people not just going to history and being like, “Oh God, we’re learning about the Treaty of Waitangi again.” It’s about, actually this a really important part of our history.

We have had lots of opportunities to examine our race relations, are we there yet?

Hana Olds: I think we have the opportunity, and like I said, we’ve had an opportunity for a very long, and it’s taken us as a nation, and as a culture, to realise we have this opportunity, but also to seize it, and to actually start making changes about how we view ourselves, how we view Māori, who we view them as a people.

We don’t really see it, but there’s so much ingrained racism in our culture that is still thriving, and I think it’s for us to just take a step back, and look at ourselves, and think about everything we’ve learned, and where it actually comes from.

Because I think some stuff is really beneficial, but a lot of the stuff is still tied into this sort of patriarchy, but also this sort of like really limited narrow-minded view of Māori and of New Zealand, and of what we should be as a nation. And I don’t think, yeah, I agree with that.

How important is the success of the Suffrage Petition?

Hana Olds: Well, it’s a milestone obviously, because it’s women facing this barrier, and now having the chance to actually have a voice in what they want in the society. And I think New Zealand allowing their voices to be heard for the first time in the world — we were the first people to let women vote — I think is very significant, because it means that... it’s just acknowledging; it’s a very basic thing of acknowledging that women do have a mind, and they do have thoughts, and they do think about politics, and they also can have opinions. And I think acknowledging that is basic, but it was a milestone.

Has Suffrage brought about equality?

Hana Olds: I think feminism today is very topical, and I think — and it often gets very controversial, because a lot of people still ask, 'Well, do we still need feminism?' And I think the fact that that question is being asked means that we obviously still do, because there’s still... I think now it’s about unpicking our learning, like I said before, it’s about — we’ve still got so many ingrained ideas in our heads about what a woman should be like, and all these sorts of stereotypes of what women should be, and how they can cope with situations et cetera. And I think we need to unlearn these ideas, and I think...

I think there’s still so many barriers, and the problem about these barriers is they’re barriers that you can’t see; it’s barriers that women experience, they don’t necessarily talk about, but they’re not thing that you can physically see. And just because you can’t see them, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.

And I think that’s what we’re trying to face now, is these invisible barriers that are still very much alive, and still very much present for women to face, but... that are harder to acknowledge, because we can’t see them.

What are the inequalities that women suffer today?

Hana Olds: Well, I think, yeah, like the basic thing that women and men don’t get paid the same much for doing the same job, and when — well that just doesn’t make sense. It really doesn’t make sense to me; there’s no other way of talking about it.

We should get paid for the work that we do, not for — it’s the actions that we make, that’s what we’re getting paid for, it’s not who we are, or where I come from or what socio-economic group I come from, it’s about the work that I’m doing. It’s about what I’m trying to achieve, not about all these other ideas, which are obviously important, but if you think about - yeah, I don’t know. It’s just I don’t think it’s important like...

Talk to us about body image, and how that affects young women today.

Hana Olds: Well, I think Miley Cyrus is really interesting for the fact that she was subjected so early to scrutiny in every part of her life, and that would be like — if I think about myself in that situation, I don’t know how I would cope.

It’s awful having to experience that at such a young age, and obviously she broke out, and she started doing her own thing. And because it was so extreme, that people started judging her for that. But the fact that, why should we be judging her for that? Because she’s just doing her, and that’s what she might need to do for herself.

It’s a complex one, because I think it’s a balance between women owning their bodies, and also women being respected for their bodies. And I think in the media there’s a lot of sexualisation of females — unnecessary sexualisation. If you’re advertising toys, you do not need to put a naked woman in there; that’s ridiculous.

But I think there’s also the fact of, women are sexual creatures, humans are sexual creatures, and we all have our own needs, and we all have our own different ways of showing it. So some people might not want to post naked photos online, but some people like Kim Kardashian, well they do.

And I think we need to respect how different people show their sexuality, and I think it’s realising that a lot of different women show their sexuality in different ways. So some people like to dress up, some people don’t, and it’s accepting that, and I don’t think you can judge another woman based on how she shows her sexuality, because I think that’s for her to make up her mind.

So do you feel safe?

Hana Olds: I don’t feel safe because I still believe these things, and I know a lot of other people around me still do, but I know there’s [laughs] a lot of people in this world who still have negative... who don’t make me feel safe because they believe that they can tell me what to wear, or they can make remarks on my body on the street, or they can, you know, run me into the bushes and think they can rape me.

That’s not acceptable, and people out there still exist, because if you look at the media, and you look at all these women who are facing these injustices every day, and then when they’re complaining about it to the police, they’re not being heard. I’m not safe, and no women is ever safe. And I think that’s where we have to start. We have to start by saying, we have to start by acknowledging that all these things are happening, and then we have to start realising that we can do something about it, and make a difference.

If you were in power, what are the things you would change?

Hana Olds: Well, there’s so many different things we have to do. But... obviously the wage gap, but also I think one of the most important things for me is sexual abuse, and the fact that every girl I know has experienced some form of sexual abuse — well, not sexual abuse, but like violation. And the fact that that shouldn’t happen, because I’m only sixteen, and I’m friends with a lot of girls, and the fact that that’s true, it’s really upsetting.

And I think if I was the most powerful women in New Zealand, I would... I would give — I don’t know how I would support it, but I think there has to be a change in this mindset now that the fact that men can think they can just do that. And the thing is it’s not just a one-way thing; it’s not just men towards women, and the fact of any sexual abuser, whether woman or man or anything, that’s just not okay. It doesn’t matter about gender, it matters about the fact that people think that they can do this to other people, and...

The thing is, it’s majority women who are the victims, but the thing is we can’t silence the male victims as well, because they just have an equal voice, but the women victims, they’re majority, and so that’s who we do focus on, because like you said, 99.9 percent are females how are subjugated to this violence, and this sort of sexual trauma almost. The fact that rape victims, that’s traumatising, and that affects their whole entire lives, and also the people who are around them; it’s not just one person being affected, it’s that person, and everyone they know.

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