Time to publish? National Library services for publishers and authors

Time to publish? National Library services for publishers and authors

• Transcript — Time to publish? National Library services for publishers and authors

  Speakers

  Joan McCracken, Michelle Print, Rhonda Grantham, Stephen Clothier, Kevin Moffat

  Mihi and acknowledgments

  Joan McCracken: Nau mai, haere mai, and a warm welcome to the August edition of Connecting to Collections online. Ko Joan McCracken ahau. I'm with the Alexander Turnbull Library's Outreach Services Team, and I'm delighted you've joined us today to learn more the National Library's services to publishers and authors with my colleagues Michelle Print and Rhonda Grantham. And we're delighted that Stephen Clothier from Wellington City Libraries will join us towards the end of the presentation.

  Before the presentation starts, I have a little housekeeping. As you'll have seen when you joined the webinar, it is being recorded. And as this is a webinar, your videos and microphones are turned off.

  However, if you have any general questions or comments, then please add them to chat. If you have any questions for the speakers, then please add those to Q&A. You'll find both buttons at the bottom of your Zoom screen. We will be monitoring chat and Q&A.

  At the end of the presentation, I will pass on any questions we received to Rhonda, Michelle, and Stephen. I'll also be adding some links to chat during the presentation. If you want to save those links, click on the ellipsis, the three dots beside the chat button and select Save chat.

  As always, to open our talk today, we have as our Whakatauaki a verse from the National Library's waiata “Kōkiri kōkiri kōkiri” by our Waikato-Tainui colleague, Bella Tarawhiti.

  Haere mai e te iwi
  Kia piri tāua
  Kia kite atu ai
  Ngā kupu whakairi e.

  [Welcome oh people
  Let us work together
  To search the collections
  They are a wealth of knowledge.]

  And now it's my great pleasure to introduce my colleagues, Rhonda Grantham, the National Library's legal deposit specialist, and Michelle Print the co-coordinator of the New Zealand ISBN Agency, and a welcome to Stephen Clothier from Wellington City Libraries. Michelle will open today's presentation. Welcome, Michelle.

  Introduction

  Michelle Print: Ngā mihi nui, kia koutou, e huihui, my nei. Greetings to everyone gathered here. Welcome to ‘Time to publish? National Library services for publishers and authors’. I'm the coordinator for the New Zealand ISBN Agency at the National Library. And I have the best of both worlds engaging with authors and publishers pre-publication, as well as seeing first-hand, the incredible and varied publications as they come into our care.

  The National Library provides several services to publishers and authors. We also make sure that New Zealand publications are collected and preserved as part of our shared cultural heritage. So this session will cover our services, international standard numbers, cataloguing and publication, public lending right for New Zealand authors.

  It will also explain the requirement to provide copies of publications under legal deposit legislation. We also have the great pleasure to include in our session Stephen Clothier, Children's and Youth services coordinator from the Wellington City Libraries. Stephen will be speaking about his experience publishing Tūhono, a journal of poetry by children and teens.

  By the end of the session, we hope you will know why you might use a service at the National Library or arrange to deposit a publication with us. We also hope you will know when to do things, how to do them, and what should happen next.

  NZ ISBN Agency

  The international ISBN agency is tasked with overseeing the agencies like us. And we certainly make the most of their support.

  Aotearoa-located publishers can request a unique international identification number for their publication. Our library colleagues and the serials team support requests for international standard serial numbers, which identify magazines, newspapers, and journals.

  Today I'm showing you around the New Zealand ISBN Agency where we provide international standard book numbers for printed books, ebooks, and audiobooks. We also provide international standard music numbers for sheet music.

  We are a mini team of three collection management librarians.

  The administration of the ISBN system is shared by 150 other regional and national agencies. So that's quite the community to belong to. And we certainly make the most of the support from the International ISBN Agency.

  We check in and we ask questions and we ask for feedback on our allocation practices. There's no cost involved. And once you've made an application, you can expect to receive your international standard book numbers within three working days. So a quick and easy task that can be accomplished remotely.

  But, we reckon there is so much more to this service. We build relationships with people in the business of bringing stories to life, whether you are a medium to large traditional publisher or a self-publisher learning how to do a million things yourself and/or hiring professionals along the way. At the heart of what we do is ensuring that anyone using our service receives enough support to get the most out of the ISBN standard.

  So, hopefully, by the end of this quick tour, we'll be on the same page definitely not drinking from the same cup. But I do salute those vessels and all shapes and form having got you to the home stretch and with the finish line in sight.

  Well-meaning advice from your fellow community or your printer on ISBNs can point you in the right direction or add some extra work or stress to that all-important home stretch. So here are just some of the widely held ideas we come across.

  Firstly, copyright. ISBNs are unrelated to copyright. ISBNs are identifiers. Copyright is created automatically with original work.

  The purpose of an ISBN is not to prove you are a serious author or that your book deserves to be published. It's not intended as a stamp of authority. And, finally, all books need an ISBN that age-old question. Let's just sit with that as we dig a bit further into the purpose of an ISBN.

  So let's start at the beginning. Once we receive an application, the first step is determining whether a publication will be eligible for an ISBN. And in this regard, all of the following criteria must be met.

  So a publication is monographic. So that's any publication with a defined end. It must be text-based or predominantly text-based. And it must be available to the public whether for sale or free of charge.

  Being available to the public has its own scope within the ISBN standard. And we stick close to the guidance from the International Agency. The publication is not available to the public when circulation is restricted.

  So this could be producing a book for your friends and family or you plan to produce a book for a particular society, club or organization or you're producing a guide for a small group course. And we might be in contact at this point to ensure ISBNs are correctly assigned.

  Another way we build trust and rapport is by helping people understand for-purpose aspect of the ISBN. The ISBN was developed to play an important role within the worldwide book supply chain and makes for an efficient method of ordering, distribution and tracking of sales data. So think of it as glue.

  From the first digit to the check digit at the end, the string of numbers holds together the information about your publication, where it was published, by whom, title, edition, and format. So it's a smart way of making sure the supply chain has accurate information about your publications. And you would have seen the ISBN at work whenever you've purchased a book.

  And the 13-digit ISBN represented as a bar code is a lot less work at the point of sale. And there's lots of behind-the-scenes work, which occurs when data providers like Nielsen BookScan, collect point-of-sale data from stores worldwide, and provide data from author and title sales. And a shout out to Auckland Council Libraries which have a fantastic online guide of the processes to follow if you would like them to consider purchasing your book.

  Public Libraries use library supplies websites to select the material they wish to purchase. And one of the key library suppliers in New Zealand is Wheelers Books. So once your book is registered through a library supplier, you can ask a library to consider purchasing your book.

  So bookstores in all shape and form and libraries are definitely places an ISBN is going to knuckle down and get work done. And there are situations where an intended publication may meet all the criteria. But an ISBN is not going to be beneficial because the distribution method is not part of the supply chain.

  So if you're not trying to place your book in bookstores or libraries, you can produce your book without an ISBN because it won't really help you in a way that it is intended to. And so some of the examples might be if you are producing a print run and they're going to be available through a school or community markets or on Trade Me.

  So back to that age-old question, do all books need an ISBN? Well, no. And not every book will meet the criteria for an ISBN. And some books which do meet the criteria can be produced without one.

  Maintaining the ISBN standard in the digital space is not without its challenges. The standard for an ISBN is that it identifies a publication, not a supplier or retailer. But we hear from self-publishers that in practice, distribution across online platforms can be a bit of a minefield.

  So from an agency perspective, we are aware of the stress this can cause and especially if you are responsible for all aspects of the publishing process. So a point of difference we are seeing is in the information about your books. For example, free ISBNs from platforms can come preregistered under the imprint name independently published.

  So, again, accurate, and consistent information about your book might be the deciding factor, whether you are just starting out building your business or fulfilling a long-held dream. And for many self-publishers worldwide, the cost of an ISBN may weigh heavily in deciding which is the best course to take. So, again, it's really good to be able to provide our service free of charge.

  So how can we help? Well, we are a phone call or email away. And we love to answer your queries. What's the difference between a reprint and a new edition, how are ISBNs assigned to books in a series.

  We'll do our best to answer in a timely way. And if we're not quite sure, if we want to just get a second opinion, we will ask our colleagues at the International ISBN Agency.

  So when should you apply?

  So when should you apply? Well, we take a broad approach here. I guess when the finish line is in sight. And this will have other factors influencing it as we acknowledge the various disruptions to the book supply chain and the importance of pre-sales marketing.

  We do ask you to use our online form because using the form ensures we get all information required to allocate your ISBN and it gets the data into the ISBN system in the most efficient way for everyone. We can assign single ISBNs and blocks of ISBNs. If you're going to publish only one book and one format, the single ISBN will be enough.

  But if you plan to publish more than one book or to publish a revised edition of the original, or if you're going to publish a book in different formats, such as paperback, ebook, you will need a different ISBN for each version and format. So a block of ISBNs is going to be more suitable for your output. And ISBNs do not expire. So there's no time limit imposed.

  It's been really great to show a bit of what we do. And if you would like everything about your book, everywhere all at once, then you should definitely give us a call.

  So I'll hand over to Rhonda.

  Rhonda Grantham: Kia ora, kia ora koutou. I'm Rhonda. And thanks, Michelle. That's wonderful about ISBNs. And so I'm the legal deposit specialist at the National Library.

  And I will be speaking to you today about several things, not just legal deposit. So I'll be speaking about cataloguing-in-publication records and the legal deposit and the public lending right scheme for New Zealand Authors. So I'm going to begin with cataloguing-in-publication records.

  Cataloguing-in-publication records (CiP)

  So that's the service that the National Library offers — and it's a free service — and any Aotearoa New Zealand publisher can apply for one for their upcoming publication. So this includes self-publishers, small, medium, or large publishers. And they can be made for print books, ebooks, or audiobooks.

  So what are they and what is the purpose of them? They are a descriptive record for a forthcoming publication using information provided by the publisher. The record is added to Publications New Zealand where it can alert libraries and booksellers to the publication's upcoming release.

  The best time to apply for one is when the book has been produced. The forthcoming publication date is known and the book is ready for pre-publication marketing. Publishers can apply by completing an online form.

  And once a CiP record has been applied for a publisher can add a standard statement to their publication that a catalog record is available from the National Library. More information about CiP records can be found on the National Library website. And I won't read it out. But we're going to add the link to the chat now.

  Legal deposit

  Right. The next bit's my baby. Legal deposit. So I'm the Legal deposit specialist, and I'm still wondering what it is.

  It's a legislative requirement that publishers provide copies of their publications to the National Library. Funnily enough, the term legal deposit is not used in our legislation. Instead, publishers are instructed to arrange the provision of copies of public documents to the National Library.

  The purpose of legal deposit is to help preserve our shared cultural heritage. So it is available for the benefit of the community now and into the future. Usually, it is the publisher, the person or organization who is arranging for the publication to be produced who should deposit the publication. Not the author or the printer.

  And, at this point, I want to acknowledge the support of publishers for legal deposit who deposit items at their own cost. This includes the cost of the item itself, the time arranging deposits, and the cost of getting it to the Library.

  The Library can collect publications for legal deposit because we have requirements notices which allow us to enact the mandate and the Legal Deposit Act. The three which do that are the National Library requirement books and periodicals notice, the National Library requirement electronic documents notice, which as well as enabling us to collect online publications, we can collect electronic publications that are made available on physical media. So things like CDs and DVDs.

  And finally, the National Library requirement phonographic documents notice. Which a few years ago, we saw that music publishers were continuing to make their music available on vinyl. We looked at the two notices we had.

  And there was doubt that the mechanical method of etching grooves onto a disk was covered by them. So we issued a new notice in 2017, which clarified that vinyl sound recordings are in scope for legal deposit. And I think we're one of the few or maybe the only legal deposit Library that has a vinyl notice.

  And I think it's worth pointing out that we are working under legislation, which sometimes may not allow us to apply discretion when requests are made. An example I see quite often is when a publisher wants to send us a digital file instead of the published print version. We still require, however, the hard copy because that is the version being made available to the community.

  So it's about that idea of that shared cultural heritage. So the item that was out in the world was a physical thing. And so that's the thing that we're interested in preserving.

  There are three tests a publication needs to meet to be considered in scope for legal deposit. It needs to be issued to the public or copies are available on request or it is available on the internet. Two, it needs to be produced in New Zealand or commissioned to be produced outside New Zealand by an Aotearoa New Zealand person or organisation.

  And this extra bit allows us to require publications which are produced overseas e.g. when a publisher uses a print-on-demand service like Amazon. And finally, three, a copyright exists in the publication.

  Now, circling back to Michelle's great overview of ISBNs to be in scope for legal deposit, a book does not need to have an ISBN.

  So we receive all manner of publications. So they include, but are not limited to video and audio, including recorded music, books, maps, magazines, newspapers, sheet music, websites. And the broad way our legislation is drafted means that new forms of online publications e.g. social media or publishing methods like Substack newsletters, are usually in scope for legal deposit.

  Some types of publications don't need to be deposited. They include those only distributed to your immediate circles, that is family and friends.

  Public records within Section 4 of the Public Records Act that are not being made available to the public. Reprinted or reissued publications identical to material already supplied for legal deposit. In-house materials, such as training manuals, teaching or course notes, and minutes of meetings, catalog and trade advertising like my little friend hedgehog and tortoise.

  And, usually, we don't accept stationery products like diaries, journals, calendars, things like that. But exceptions can be made if they have significant amount of original text.

  If you're not sure whether you need to deposit something, we welcome that you get in touch. And we'll add the legal deposit web link email and telephone number to the chat now.

  So let's look a little bit more at to-do list. What do you need to do? So, it's published. Time to deposit.

  Publishers are expected to supply physical publications within 20 days of publication or for digital 20 days after we have asked. If they miss the deadline, we still expect copies. And we have processes in place to follow up with them, which does sound a little bit ominous, but we are actually very friendly.

  Our legislation allows us to collect both physical and digital versions of a publication. But the requirements for physical and digital publications differ. Publishers need to deposit hard copies. But for digital publications, publishers only need to provide assistance if we ask.

  For physical publications, we need publishers to deposit two copies for a print run 100 copies or over. When they do a smaller print run of 1 to 99 or its print-on-demand, they only need to deposit one copy. Publications can be posted, couriered or dropped into the National Library building in Wellington.

  Publishers can get digital works to us in a variety of ways. They can upload a copy to our Dropbox, attach it to an email, provide us with a link to their cloud storage, or if the publication is a membership benefit or behind a paywall, can provide us with login details.

  To help us keep track of new publications arriving with us, we ask that publishers complete a legal deposit form for a new publication. When they are depositing in multiple formats, e.g. print and digital, one form can serve both.

  Items received through legal deposit are held permanently, even when a publisher produces an updated version of their work. Updated versions also need to be provided.

  We enhance access to publications received for legal deposit by creating catalog records, including analysing them to provide creator and subject access points, as well as shown in the National Library catalog, descriptive records can be found on the National Library website and Te Puna, a search service that provides access to what is held in New Zealand libraries. And WorldCat, a search service that services the collections of tens of thousands of institutions across the world.

  The physical publications, a copy goes into the Alexander Turnbull Library, the national research and heritage collection. And when a second copy is supplied, it goes into our general New Zealand and Pacific collection, and is available to borrow from local libraries using Interlibrary loan.

  Digital publications are archived into the National Digital Heritage Archive, our digital preservation system. If a publication is open access freely available online or we've received publisher permission, anyone can access our archive copy through the National Library catalogue.

  When there are restrictions on members of the public accessing and using a digital publication, for example, because it's for sale, people need to come to the National Library's Wellington building to access it.

  They can only access the publication on the screen. So you can't download, print email, or share it in any way. We take care to ensure that we assign the correct access to publications that publishers wish to earn money from or restrict access to.

  Legal deposit has some benefits to publishers. When other libraries decide to purchase copies of Aotearoa New Zealand publications, the descriptive records we create can be uploaded into their library catalogue for these copies. The descriptive records we create provide awareness about publications now and into the future allowing researchers in New Zealand and around the world to discover publications received for legal deposit.

  We analyse and preserve digital and physical publications to international standards. Physical publications are stored in conditions that best preserve them in the long-term. And our digital preservation system maintains the digital objects integrity so that it can be accessed in the future. And, finally, in the unfortunate event a publisher loses access to their own publication, we can provide them with a copy.

  Now, we have the great pleasure to introduce Stephen Clothier, Children and Youth Services Coordinator from Wellington City Libraries. Stephen will be speaking about his experience publishing Tūhono, a journal of poetry by children and teens. Whiua te rakau ki a koe, Stephen, handing you the stick.

  Publishing Tūhono

  Stephen Clothier: Kia ora, Rhonda. Thank you so much. Kia ora koutou e hoa mā, thank you for joining us today.

  As Rhonda said, my name is Stephen, and I am the Children's and Youth Services coordinator at Wellington City Libraries, in the olden days that might have been called something like head children's librarian. And I'm here today to talk about a publication that we produce annually called Tūhono, which is a journal of poetry written by Wellington Children and Teens.

  And you can see one of the covers, the most recent one on the screen in front of you. I also have a couple next to me here. So this is last year's volume.

  And then I also have — this is the very battered original proof for the first Tūhono, back in 2020. So I'm going to talk a little bit about the process that we went through to produce this publication because it was something that was totally new to us as a public library. We aren't usually very heavily involved in the creation of publications.

  We very happily collect them and make them available to the public. But this was really the first time that we had gone through the process of creating something ourselves. So it might be something that will be of interest to some of you in the audience.

  So, first of all, the background of Tūhono is quite interesting. And it has its roots in the great lockdowns of 2020. We had a creative writing group for teenagers that met regularly online during the level 4 lockdowns. And they're producing a lot of poetry.

  And we thought, hey, wouldn't it be cool if once we come out of this whole lockdown situation, if we had some kind of physical publication of some of the works created by these kids? That could be a really cool way to bring people together after we reopen our library sites, and people can start participating once more in society.

  And so that was the germ of the idea. And then it expanded out quite a lot. We thought, hey, it shouldn't just be for this one group. Let's open it up to everybody.

  We can invite them to reflect on their experiences during lockdown. We can include children, as well as teenagers. And so we brainstormed a few different ideas.

  And we came up with this system for running a submissions process for children and teens to send us their poetry. We would provide them with a theme. And, effectively, we would publish anything that we got sent.

  So unlike a lot of these kinds of publications like the Toitoi journal, for example, we made the commitment that we would publish anything that we got sent as long as it met the criteria for publication. So, why would we do something like this? As I mentioned earlier, libraries have traditionally had little interest in being the creators of publications.

  But one thing that we are always interested in is having our collections be reflective of our communities in ways that matter. So we make sure to buy things that we think our communities will be interested in and those kinds of things. And increasingly around the world, and especially in Aotearoa, public libraries are looking for ways to enable their community members to actually have themselves reflected or represented on the shelves.

  And we call this patron-created content. There's quite a lot of different ways in which this process bears out. But for us, Tūhono is, I guess, our flagship project and the patron-created contents stream of our collections strategy. But it certainly isn't the only thing that we're doing in this area.

  Before I go on, I'll just briefly mention that Tūhono, obviously, it's not just me doing it. There are a couple of different people within the Library who work on it with me.

  This is possibly something that is analogous to many of you who might be self-publishing. You will be writing all the content yourself. But you might have somebody help you design the cover of the book or you might have somebody assist you with some of the National Library-related processes that Rhonda and Michelle have just talked about.

  So on our team, there's me. There's my colleague Stephanie Poulopoulos. She is one of our collections librarians. And our colleague Liza Porter, who in a previous life in Brazil had worked as a book designer and a layouter for a publication company. So as you can imagine, her expertise was really valuable to us.

  So the process for creating to her norm was straightforward. It unspooled from that original idea.

  We needed to have a system for children and teenagers to provide us with their work. So we devised a pretty simple online form, just using a tool called [inaudible]. We could just as easily have used Google Forms, or Microsoft Forms, or anything like that.

  And the form allows the submitter to attach documents. We provided some guidelines around what the theme of the poetry should be, and also the formats that they should provide the poem in 12 point fonts should fit on a single A4 page, that kind of thing. And we also used the submission form to manage the whole permissions process because we were aware that we were going to be collecting a whole bunch of poems by a whole bunch of people.

  And we needed to be able to keep track of who they were and how they wanted to be identified within the publication itself. Often, with children, there's this tension between wanting to have their work be recognisable and searchable by their name and also people wanting their identities to remain private. So we gave children the option.

  They could choose to either have their full name displayed alongside their poem. Or if they wanted to choose a pseudonym, they could do that in the form as well. Or if they wanted to only be known by their first name or their surname, then those were options that were available as well. And quite a lot of the teens, especially chose to make use of the pseudonym option.

  We also needed to make sure that they understood what they were actually submitting and what it would be used for. So the form also outlines, obviously, that we will publish and print, and also in book format. Any poem that gets sent through.

  And it will be published as is. So we won't necessarily do any copy editing, except in some fringe scenarios. And it also outlines that effectively, the poets, when they're submitting their work, is giving their creative outputs to the Library to be the steward of so that we can then use it in any way that we need to create the publication.

  There's also an optional permission for poets to submit so that they can select or not. And if they choose to select this option, then that gives the Library permission to use their poem, in particular, for promotional, for advertising, or for social media, or for posters in our libraries, and things like that to let people know about the publication.

  So we opened up the submissions in November of 2020, we had the form go live. We sent out communication via all the schools in Wellington.

  We developed a simple lesson plan for teachers even to use in the classroom to encourage their kids to write poems. And then they sent their poems into us. We formatted them.

  We did very minimal editing. And we did all the layouting. So we organised them into the volumes, the full-color publications. And then from that point on, it was a fairly straightforward path to printing and publication.

  I've been asked to talk a little bit about some of the surprising, or difficult, or even surprisingly easy parts of the publication process for us. And I think to start with something quite surprising, we really weren't anticipating that it would be as popular as it was. But especially in the wake of COVID and those lockdowns, people, especially kids were quite desperate for a creative outlet.

  And so we had pretty massive public response that first year, there were about 200 poems that were submitted. And we published all of them. And so a very, very thick publication.

  So in future years, because of that demand, we decided to split the publication into two. So there's one smaller volume, which is publications by teens aged 13 to 18 and one slightly chunkier publication for poems written by children aged 5 to 13.

  In terms of the difficulty of putting this together, I mean, we really had no idea what we were doing. So we just made up processes as we went. But for us, the most challenging aspect was definitely the actual design and layouting of the book.

  And this is where Liza's expertise in the book design industry was really, really helpful. When you're collating so many different works, creative works by so many different people, you have to think very carefully about how the publication is organised, and what it's going to look like, and how does the color scheme that you choose for the title page or for the insets reflect the thematic content of the material and so on.

  So that was definitely, a challenging aspect for us. And the most time-consuming by quite a long way. There were many, many different iterations of this that went back and forth as we continued through the process.

  And interestingly enough, the stuff that we found surprisingly easy was really the process-type stuff. I guess, being a library, we're quite familiar with metadata. And so it was a really straightforward process for us really to get in touch with the National Library team.

  They assigned an ISSN to Tūhono because it's an annual publication. So given that it doesn't have a foreseen end, it's not eligible for an ISBN, but it is for an ISSN. That was very straightforward, including that in the publication. Writing the catalog records ourselves even was also quite straightforward.

  And the other thing that was important for us was to think about was how we provided access for people. And so, yes, we have the physical publication that we distribute just to libraries in schools in the Wellington area. But we also provide digital access through OverDrive and Libby which are our ebook platforms.

  And so that's, again, proved to be a surprisingly straightforward process for us to enable that access through OverDrive. Again, we're very familiar with creating the metadata. That's required to do that.

  And there was no need for the contents to be vetted beyond our own team saying, yup, this looks good to put up on our website.

  So, yeah, I guess that's it in a nutshell the process that we went through to produce this publication. I hope that's been interesting. To some of you, maybe it feels analogous to your own experience creating something or maybe it's a concept that you're unfamiliar with public libraries choosing to enter into this publication game.

  But, yeah, if anybody has any questions about Tūhono, the interest of Public Libraries in this publishing game, or anything else about our processes or projects, please feel free to add them into the Q&A so we can address them at the end of the webinar. But for now, I'll hand the stick back to Rhonda. And she's going to talk to you about the public lending right scheme. So thanks so much, Rhonda.

  Public lending right scheme

  Rhonda Grantham: Thanks, Stephen. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your work with us. It's awesome.

  So I'm going to bring this presentation home by explaining about the public lending right for New Zealand authors scheme. The scheme was established for New Zealand authors, illustrators, and editors to receive payments in recognition that their books are available for use in New Zealand libraries. Authors registered with the PLR scheme are entitled to receive an annual payment based on the number of copies of titles held in New Zealand libraries. This number is determined by an annual survey.

  They need to be resident in New Zealand and register themselves and their titles for the scheme each year. The registration period is from the 1st of Jan to the 1st of March. The scheme makes payments for books published by the 1st of January of the registration year and doesn't include ebooks and audiobooks.

  And just to confirm, books need to be published, not forthcoming publications, to be eligible. There are some conditions books need to meet regarding length. And there needs to be at least 50 copies of a title in New Zealand Library survey to get a payment.

  We count titles by surveying a sample of New Zealand libraries. And the nature of the survey alternates each year between counting all titles and only counting new titles. The survey is undertaken between March and October of each year.

  And we survey the National Library, all the large public libraries, the University Libraries, Library Consortia like Spark, Smart, and a rotating selection of the rest of New Zealand libraries. All the print copies of a title surveyed by the library being surveyed are counted.

  The public lending right fund is $2.4 million annually and is divided among registered authors based on how many copies of their works are held by libraries. These eligible for a payment or receive it by December 31st.

  A couple of things worth noting about the PLR scheme is that like legal deposit the Library is under legislation, which may not allow us to apply discretion in particular cases. Also, the cost of administering the scheme is borne by the National Library and does not come from the fund.

  So that brings us to the end of the session. And we welcome any questions you may have about our author and publisher services or for Stephen about the publication of Tuhono. Thanks. Thanks for your time.

  Questions / Patai

  Joan McCracken: Thank you so much, Rhonda. And Michelle, and Stephen, that's a fantastic session. And we already have a number of questions coming through from our audience.

  So thank you to all of you who've added questions under Q&A. Let me just start at the top of those. And we'll work through. And if you would-- the right person can answer, that would be very helpful to us.

  The first question is from Sue. Is there a way we can see what books we have submitted to the library? I'm not sure if I've sent all my books.

  Is there a way we can see what books we have submitted to the library?

  Rhonda Grantham: Thanks, Sue. That's a great question. I'll handle that one. And but sometimes we might have to just switch the device for some more ISBN type ones, which I'll hand gracefully to my colleague Michelle.

  So as we describe, fully all the books received for legal deposit. And they should be discoverable in the National Library catalog. Or else, you can just go to the National Library website.

  And then that search bar across the top, you can limit your search to just being national and the National Library catalog. And you should be able to just search for any book you're interested in finding out about to see if you've deposited it or not. So search by your name, or the book's title, or any keywords should be able to surface the book to see if you've deposited.

  If you're not sure, again, if you've searched and you still can't see something that you're expecting to see, I'd suggest just emailing us at legaldeposit@dia.govt.nz to see whether we've got it. Yeah.

  Joan McCracken: Thank you, Rhonda. That email address is in the chat already. So people can look there.

  Now, the next couple of questions from Heather. She says she's actually answered in her own way. But thought I'd ask them anyway because they're very relevant to a wider group, not just the person who was asking.

  So from Heather, is it only books with an ISBN that must be deposited legally? For example, a family history that does not have an ISBN, does that need to be deposited?

  Is it only books with an ISBN that must be deposited legally?

  Rhonda Grantham: Yeah, so it's actually a really good question, Heather, because it depends. So, first thing, a book doesn't need an ISBN to be in scope for legal deposit. So if a book meets some other conditions, it's most definitely needs to be supplied for legal deposit.

  However, for something like a family history, it will really depend on how you are going to plan to distribute that work. So if you're just limiting it to your immediate circle, then it's probably not in scope for legal deposit. If you're wanting to broaden the distribution to your local region, you want to hand out copies to some libraries, to more broadly, then it will be in scope for legal deposit.

  So it's just a really around your plans in terms of how you want that work to be distributed. And just also to bear in mind that legal deposit isn't the only way that we can accept material at the National Library. So there is avenues where you can offer works to the library that may not be in scope for legal deposit.

  So, yeah, again, it's a question for us. So just email legal deposit if you're ever wondering whether something should be deposited.

  Joan McCracken: And here's another question. I write a bimonthly newsletter for a Historical Society. It is sent either digitally or in hard copy to members of the society. Should I be depositing those?

  I write a bimonthly newsletter for a Historical Society, should I be depositing those?

  Rhonda Grantham: It does sound like you should be depositing those. Now, bear in mind, we're a country of 5 million really, really active people involved in so many societies. So the National Library is never going to know about every single society or group that's here. But if your work is meeting the test of legal deposit, so you're making it available to the public.

  You're a New Zealand person or organisation, then it will be in scope. But, again, just contact us and we'll check. And when publishers are doing two versions like a digital and a physical, we're looking at really what is the main way you're distributing it.

  So you might not need to deposit in both formats. You could get could do a digital or if your main way of depositing of distributing to your members is still hard copies than a hard copy. So, again, it's worth getting in touch to check.

  Joan McCracken: Thank you. Heather has actually put an address that she's been sending things too in the chat here. So I'm just going to read it out just to make sure that it is still the relevant one. So it's being sent to:

  Jessica Lilly, Collection Management Librarian, Legal Deposit and Acquisitions
  National Library of New Zealand, Te Puna Mātauranga o Aotearoa.

  Rhonda Grantham: Yeah, we tend to ask people to send things to our shared mailbox. So, again, probably, that person used to work here and no longer does. So I would suggest, again, contacting legal deposit just to check that that's the correct address because, yeah, we use shared mailboxes. So that if people leave, that isn't lost as well.

  Joan McCracken: So would you suggest that they use the legaldeposit@dia.govt.nz

  Rhonda Grantham: Yup.

  Joan McCracken: It is in chat. Though I think it might have got a little muddled. So just to repeat. It is legaldeposit@dia.govt.nz, it's as printed as one word with no separation @dia which is Department of Internal Affairs, .govt.nz. So legaldeposit@dia.govt.nz will get you a good response.

  Another question now. Many countries pay for the legal deposit copies as they can mount quite a cost, especially if smaller print runs. Have you considered this?

  Many countries pay for the legal deposit copies as they can mount quite a cost, especially if smaller print runs. Have you considered this?

  Rhonda Grantham: I'm not sure what countries you are speaking of. Because I've read quite broadly on legal deposit legislation. And for all the countries that I've surveyed, I haven't seen that. But we haven't been entertaining that idea at all. No.

  Joan McCracken: A question here. Does PLR have a copies in school libraries?

  Does PLR have copies in school libraries?

  Rhonda Grantham: And I've got a lovely colleague, Kevin. And I'm jumping--

  Kevin Moffat: Kia ora everyone. Kevin Moffat.

  Joan McCracken: Hi, Kevin. We're seeing your roof at the moment or something that is not just the lovely you. Can do something with that?

  Kevin Moffat: Can you hear me? That's the main thing. Joan?

  Joan McCracken: We can absolutely hear you.

  Kevin Moffat: Well, let's just go with that. I'm going to be a brief appearance.

  I'm Kevin Moffat. I'm the manager of the Public Lending Right for New Zealand Authors Scheme. So the answer to your question Heather is that no, school libraries are specifically excluded from the public lending right for New Zealand scheme by regulation 5, which also excludes special libraries and private libraries.

  Joan McCracken: Thank you, Kevin. You've gone silent. So I presume that is the end of your little piece, so the answer is no to that particular question.

  Thank you. I'd like to go back to a question I had from earlier on in this session with Michelle and asking about a publication. You were talking — sorry, let me get my head back together here.

  Oh. Sorry, sorry, Michelle. Going around in circles here. But I've just seen that there's a note from Amy Joseph. And please note that the legal deposit page on the website will list current physical addresses and email addresses for deposit. So you may not need to email legal deposit at dia.govt.nz to find this information.

  So we'll put in a link to that page again just so everyone's got it. Michelle, can you just go back to when you were speaking and talk a little bit more about what you were discussing at that time around donations?

  Michelle Print: I think was that Rhonda. That was Rhonda actually. Yeah. Do you want to jump in Rhonda? I think that was—

  Sorry, I was probably thinking about having my own cup of coffee then because I wasn't in the hot seat. I just hand over to Rhonda.

  Donation process for material that people wish to offer to the National Library?

  Rhonda Grantham: Sorry. But, yeah, so there is a donation process for material that people wish to offer to the National Library. And there's an offer of a donation, which we will get to the chat as well.

  And so, yeah, we're always interested to hear about works about Aotearoa New Zealand, about the Pacific, that may not be in the collections. And sometimes things aren't in scope for legal deposits. So, yeah, we can definitely entertain a donation process for those as well.

  Joan McCracken: Thank you. And that might apply to publications that are actually done overseas that are New Zealand-related, but not published in New Zealand.

  Rhonda Grantham: Yeah.

  Joan McCracken: Is that correct?

  Rhonda Grantham: Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.

  Joan McCracken: Lovely. And I saw that you had a note that publications that are published elsewhere, but are actually New Zealand publications. So it's not the printing process we're talking about really. It's where the authors are domiciled. Can you just clarify that?

  Rhonda Grantham: No, it's where the person who's basically commissioning or organising the publication. So for a self-published author, it is the author. And they're the publisher as well.

  Because they're commissioning the work, and they're organising it, and they're figuring out what they're going to use for the cover image, and editing it, and doing all the stuff. All of the wonderful things that publishers need to do.

  They're just doing it for themselves. And they're in New Zealand. So they're the publisher. Even if they're using an overseas platform in order to produce the work. Is that clear?

  Wrap up

  Joan McCracken: Yes, I think so. If there's any questions from that, people can come on and ask us. But we are nearing the end. So thank you again for what a wonderful session with lots of really interesting information for people. And if they still want to get in touch because they've got questions, but we haven't covered it off in today's session, is that an email to legal deposit is that the best thing to do?

  Rhonda Grantham: Yeah. Or go to that publishers and authors page. And there's a big legal deposit section as well there as well. So, yeah, those are the--

  Joan McCracken: So have we put the publishers and authors link into the chat? Could you do that?

  Rhonda Grantham: Yup. Yeah, I can do that.

  Joan McCracken: Thank you. That's fantastic.

  Rhonda Grantham: I'll do that when you're doing your bit.

  Joan McCracken: OK. So, ngā mihi, Rhonda, Michelle, and Stephen, such a wonderful presentation. Full of really useful information. Thank you.

  Now, just to finish off, I'd like to let you know about the next sessions that we're having. Oh, thank you also to the colleagues who've supported us today. And thank you to everybody who's joined.

  If you'd like to hear about future events being held at the library on-site or online, and you're not already on our 'What's on' mailing list, please do sign up. You can subscribe on the events page on the National Library website. It's www.natlib.govt.nz. I'll pop that link in as well.

  We have added the addresses to chat, well we will. Remember, you can save the chat and the links. We've added by clicking on the ellipses by the chat button.

  We really look forward to the next time you can join us. Ka kite ano. We'll finish with a Whakatauakī.

  Mā te kima ka kite

  Mā te kite ka mōhio

  Mā te mōhio ka mārama

  Thank you everybody. Look forward to seeing you in September.

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  Any errors with the transcript, let us know and we will fix them. Email us at digital-services@dia.govt.nz